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LAURA LEE ARTICLES - Robert Felix - Ice Age Now
Robert Felix on the Ice Age
by Laura Lee

All content (c) 1998, Laura Lee,Seven Directions Media Inc.
Unauthorized use is strictly prohibited. No duplication without permission All Rights Reserved

Thanks to Edward Peterson for his transcription help.

Laura Lee Lee: Our next guest says that we’re not about to destroy our world - rather, he says, our world is about to destroy us.

Now I’m not usually into doom and gloom here, but...I think this whole idea about ice ages and their return: Is it global warming or is it ice ages that are around the corner?; and are they cyclical in time? is most intriguing. Besides, the weather has gotten so’s something that we want to talk about.

He says that for our world about to destroy us: well, it’s nothing malicious; it’s not God’s wrath for our wrongdoings; just a natural cycle that’s been happening, oh, say every 11,500 years. And it’s time again for an ice age.

Global warming? Well, he sees it as just a part of that cycle; part of the mechanism of the onslaught of an ice age.

Robert Felix, from my own hometown of Bellevue, Washington is here in the studio with me tonight to discuss why he believes we could be covered in ice a decade from now.

Robert’s an architect by trade and he’s the author of "Not by Fire, but by Ice." Discover what killed the dinosaurs and why it could soon kill us.

I want to mention that I don’t believe this theory. I don’t disbelieve it. I don’t know what to think about the weather changes.

I do know that there are some very long cycles in time, and I do find in what he has to say intriguing about going through various stages...a relationship to the galactic center; and I’ll tell you about some of the other hints and other guests that we’ve had on the show that mention that as well. So that’s one aspect of his argument that intrigues me...

Again, we’ve talked with many, many guests who lay out the same body, or parts of the same body of evidence. Many of them have various different interpretations. So I go into this discussion, Robert, and welcome, open-mindedly...curious to hear you out...but I personally have no conclusion.

It’s a huge topic, and there’s so many...bits of data to compile, and so many possible interpretations - that really we’re talking about one of two things: either it’s getting hotter or it’s getting colder. Certainly the weather’s not staying the same. Is it cyclical or random? Those seem to be the quadrant...that we’re addressing here...four choices.

So, anyway, thank you and...interesting book! And again...written for the lay person.

Robert Felix: Thank you.

Laura Lee: And with a sense of humor added. So, it’ll be fun to discuss this with you here tonight.

First of all, tell me why did you get into this topic: looking at are ice ages cyclical and is one just around the corner? And you say they happen very abruptly.

Robert: They do. You know, when you we’re asking about how I got into it, I heard you talking earlier about...synchronicity, and I, you know, I don’t know... It was about six and a half years ago that I felt driven this, to write this book. And I still haven’t been able to discover, to...explain to myself where it came from. But...Yes, I do believe

Laura Lee: It was your "Call to Adventure?" Is that what you’re saying?

Robert: It was. And I heard...somebody interviewing...another author - I think it was Stephen King. I’m not sure, but they asked him how he chose what subjects he wrote about, and he said "well, what makes you think I have a choice?"

Laura Lee [talking simultaneously]: They choose him. [laughs]

Robert: And that’s kind

Laura Lee: They choose him.

Robert: They...they do!

Laura Lee: They show up.

Robert: And that’s kind of what happened to me. But yes, I do believe that the next ice age could begin any day. I...think in our lifetimes.

Laura Lee: Do you think it already has? You tell us that the ice flows in...the ice glaciers are thickening.

Robert: They are. You know, we hear about global warming. That’s, I mean, we hear about it on the radio, we read it in the paper, we see it on T.V. - but the fact is that the ice sheets are growing.

According to Charles Bentley - he’s a...he’s head of the polar research center at the University of Wisconsin - according to Charles Bentley, field measurements show that the antartic ice sheet is growing - not shrinking!

And the same thing with...with others. There’s a H.J. Walley at NASA who says that satelite altrimitry measurements show that the Greenland ice sheet is growing thicker and...thicker. And it’s growing thicker at the rate of about 8 inches a year.

Now, when you look, when you consider that Antartica, that the ice sheet covers around 5 million square miles and the Greenland ice sheet covers another 700,000 square miles - that’s twice as big as the United States!

To...have that big of an area be accumulating ice at the rate of 8 inches a year is a lot of

Laura Lee: But they also say it’s...shrinking around the edges and a lot of flows are falling off and some scientists are worried that the...some of the ice is gonna melt and we’re going to have...flooding around the coast. But those, I mean "where are we in the cycle?" is a difficult question to ask.

What I find instructive is to look back in time, which we can do through the geological record, and say: Is there a cycle?

What the ice age proponents say is that ice ages are a fact of the planet. And we’ve had other guests on the show who argue’s really a mystery of the data. Rand Flem-Ath in particular has a very interesting theory. Causes you to think and try it on, but you could say: Where are we in the cycle?

Well, ice ages - this one last 100,000 years - and you have the 12,000 year interglacial warming period. Well, the ice age ended 11,000 something 500 years ago, so that to me causes me to pick up and notice and say: "Oh well, if that cycle still holds, then we’re about due for another one."...That’s what I find interesting. Can you explain that and argue that point?

Robert: Absolutely. You know, there’s...the study was made back in 1976, and it was a study called CLIMAP - Climate Long range Investigation Mapping And Prediction - that was...spearheaded by people at Lamont Verde-Perth (?) Observatory. It had, oh, something like 200 institutions and universities involved. So we’re talking a credible study.

But anyway...they checked sea cores for last 500,000 years and they discovered that ice ages have begun or ended ABRUPTLY - and I’d like to get back to that word eventually. But they’ve begun or ended abruptly, almost exactly like clockwork, every 11,500 years! For half a million years!

I don’t know why we’re ignoring that study. It was published in Science [magazine] in 1976. It [the article] was called "Pacemaker of the Ice Ages."

For the next couple of years after that came out, we heard newspaper headlines about "The Ice Age Cometh," and then somehow we ended up talking about global warming. I don’t know where that’s come from.

Laura Lee: Well, according to the way that you’re putting the data together, the global warming is just one stage in the whole process. You need to heat seas in order for more moisture to go into the air, in order for more snow to fall...So it’s just part of the cycle.

And...what I find dangerous is to look at one piece of a very big cycle and say "Oh, this is the trend," and then give it more weight really constitutes. So I wonder if we’re doing that...a lot?...You know, we can see a little localized trend over here - is it global? We can see one trend - where does it fit in the overall picture? So, again, I just don’t know if we know enough to even know about this.

We have two options: it’s warming or it’s cooling; it’s random or it’s cyclical. And that’s what I’d like to explore with you here tonight...

Why don’t you get into the ABRUPT - how do we know that the ice ages come and go abruptly? Because according to, and I don’t believe the standard climatologists and geologists...necessarily. I don’t know what to think. But they tell us it’s a gradual process and the ice ages are motivated...or driven rather by the Earth’s tilt, the eccentricity of the orbit, and other time. That’s how they explain it. So how do we know; how do you know it’s abrupt? They tell us it’s gradual. That’s a way of going about it.

Robert: It is driven by those things that you’re talking about - no question about that. But the way I know it’s abrupt, and...if anyone hasn’t been to school in the last, like 4 or 5 years...

Laura Lee [jokingly]: Oh, let’s all raise our hands

Robert: That’s right. Now I learned in school...that ice ages began slowly, that...There’s a study in 1987 called GLIP - Greenland Ice Core Project - where they drilled deep cores into the ice in central Greenland...They drilled almost two miles deep - where they reached ice that had formed as much as 250,000 years ago. And they discovered that every ice age in the last 250,000 years - and there’ve been quite a few by the way - everyone began in less than 20 years! Sometimes in less than 10 years! And they did it - here’s another big surprise - they did it from periods of warmth such as today!

Laura Lee: And it didn’t take alot of degree of difference in temperature. Now their explanation is that you have longer, colder winters and the summer’s melt doesn’t melt all of the ice. So the time the next winter comes with it’s snowfall, you have a little accumulated from the last time, and so it’s this gradual accumulation. Could you collect the ice in 10 or 20 years, or was it suddenly a day rush?

I know that you mentioned floods happen at the end of the ice ages and sudden melt-offs of these glaciers, but what about going into one?

Robert: Most floods happen at the beginning of ice ages too, stages too, in themselves because you know there’s one surprising thing is: that during an ice age the temperatures really don’t get any colder.

During the very depths of the last ice age, temperatures in the tropics and subtropics were only 4 degrees colder than they were otherwise.

Laura Lee: So let’s all move to the tropics and the subtropics.

Robert: No.

Laura Lee: I mean, where is the solution here?

Robert: I’m ready. I’m ready. But the point is that the temperature is cold enough - right now - to have an ice age! That comes from Marsh Ewing (?) - he was the one time director of Lamont Verde (?) Earth Observatory. According to him, it’s cold enough right now to have an ice age!

Laura: In the northern latitudes?

Robert: In the northern latitudes. All we need is more moisture. That’s all we need, and we’re getting it! When I look at all of these giant storms

Laura: Look at El Nino.

Robert: Yes. Well that has a lot to do with it as far as I’m concerned.

Laura: Oh, you say El Nino’s not an isolated event. Although they can explain it as: "Well, those Gulf breezes aren’t doing what they used to do in this body of warm water"; but you’re saying it’s part of the mechanism?

Robert: Yes. I believe we’re about to see the worst rash of El Nino’s in 11,500 years.

Laura [laughs]: Hold on to your hats...We’ll come back with Robert Felix. He’s written a very intersting book: "Not by Fire but by Ice." Discover what killed the dinosaurs and why it could soon kill us.

But, of course, I say: Well, the Neanderthals and the Cro-Magnon did a very nice job of surviving the ice ages - they retreated to caves, they lived a very inward and a very interesting life - so it’s survivable; and maybe we don’t have the skills today...but we could learn [Laura laughs]. But then I’d rather be too hot than too cold.

When we come back Robert why don’t you just take some time and lay out your theory for us and...then I’ll try and tear it apart [Laura laughs]. We’ll come right back with Robert Felix. I’m Laura Lee.

Laura: Laura Lee - on the Laura Lee show - talking with Robert Felix who says that our world is about to destroy us through us. Makes you wonder about those...ancient peoples who had their various first world, second world, third world, fourth world, fifth world and all of its various destructions...doesn’t it?

Robert - oh, I want to mention - Robert is now gonna lay out his theory. I’ll sit back and listen. And I want to mention that also he’s gonna talk about magnetic reversals. He’s gonna talk about Earth’s journey through our galaxy, and how that...impacts this. This is really a detective story, and that’s how I view it.

Putting out pieces of the puzzle and then you step back and say: well what does the puzzle mean? what is it trying to tell us here?...And again, many possible different interpretations over the same data. We’re gonna listen to how Robert Felix is putting it all together.

Robert, why don’t you begin now, and tell us: what do you think is happening? why do you think it’s cyclical? And tell us the broad brush strokes, and then we can go through and piece together the data that you say supports this. But if you can give us a sense of context: what’s happening? what is the cycle that you believe we’re a part of?

Robert: Well the biggest thing that I see is our warming seas. You know, I...cannot deny that our seas are warming. And that looks at first glance to...almost everyone like global warming.

But what I write about in the book is that just prior to the last glaciation, just prior to the glaciation that killed the mammoths - sea temperatures increased. They went up - not down - by between 10 and 18 degrees Fahrenheit. And that has happened prior to other glaciations too. And, for instance the dinosaur glaciation 65 million years ago, and that’s where I came up with begin with actually is that just prior to the dinosaur extinction sea temperatures increased by - and this depends on who you talk to - by between 8 and 22 degrees Fahrenheit.

Now that, still, that sounds like global warming, but let me ask you a question...or any cook out there: What happens if you take a pot of water, you put it on the stove - even if you turn the heat onto its lowest setting - what happens to that water?

Laura: It goes into the air as vapor.

Robert: Yes, it does. It evaporates and eventually - do it in your kitchen, it’s gonna run back down the windows - but eventually, on a major scale, I believe that’s what’s happening in our oceans right now. Our oceans are warming - agreed; but I believe that excess moisture is rising into the sky and is coming back to Earth as giant floods, giant storms, giant blizzards

Laura: And more ice on cap?

Robert: More ice. More

Laura: More snow on

Robert: Right. Wherever that moisture falls where the temperature’s below 32 degrees, it’s going to start accumulating as...snow. And once it gets to 100 feet deep and starts to settle - it becomes ice. That’s where I think it’s coming from: is from the warming ocean.

Laura: Let’s get back to what you believe is heating the oceans, and you’ve got some interesting scientific data to back that up, and then tell that part of the cycle. But if you can continue to talk, so that we can understand more: how does this lead ice age?

Robert: You bet.

Laura: Going back to this heating of the oceans.

Robert: You bet. OK. Well, here is where I think we’re making a big mistake, because we’re crying, we’re running around saying that humans are causing global warming - which means humans are heating these oceans. Well, you know, if you’ve ever had a backyard swimming pool, and...realize how much money it costs to heat one little dream swimming pool, and we think WE have the power to heat the entire oceans?! They cover 71% of our planet.

Laura: We’re kind of puny, right, on that scale?

Robert: We are. Now I believe that underwater volcanic activity is heating our ocean. That, I believe, is it. And you know, that’s another thing. That’s another part of the cycle that happens with ice ages is that at the beginnings of previous ice ages. Volcanic activity has increased a lot. It’s increased substantially.

Now there’re been numerous studies - I mean hundreds of studies - of scientists trying to say: Well gee, all of that ash rising into the sky - would it cool the skies and would it cause the ice age? But then when they...actually looked at the stratographic record...there’s not enough ash there to...have done the trick. So, they’ve kinda backed off on that theory.y

But I think they’ve been missing a very important...part about volcanic activity. According to experts at NOAH, 80% of all...volcanic activity occurs underwater.

Well, right now, we’re going through a period of the worst volcanic activity - the heaviest volcanic activity - in at least 500 years. Now if NOAH’s 80% ratio is right - and I don’t see why it shouldn’t be - that means that underwater volcanic activity must be going crazy right now. I think that’s it.

Laura: Well, three-fourths of the Earth’s surface is water, so there’s greater likelihood that these volcanoes would happen underwater and we wouldn’t see them. But you’re saying it’s accumulating higher temperatures in the ocean, all this volcanic...activity.

I was interested to read - which I hadn’t seen before - many of the new discoveries of underwater volcanoes that you’re citing. Big regions of new volcanoes, and not just Hawaii...You’re saying many parts of the...ocean...are seeing as much as the ocean ridges pulling apart you’re seeing.

Robert: Right. Many, many areas. You know, well, one problem we have is that...the study of underwater volcanic activity is really in its infancy. And scientists really don’t know yet, 1993 - just 4 years ago - they discovered 1133 new under... - not new - but they discovered 1133 underwater volcanoes that they didn’t previously know existed. They were off the coast of Easter Island.

Now the entire - up until that time, they thought that there were about 10,000 underwater volcanoes in the entire world.

Laura: So to find 10% additional

Robert: such a small area - because they were found in an area about the size of New York state. About...

Laura: But think of all the ones out there that you’re gonna tell me that they haven’t yet discovered.

We’ll come back with Robert Felix. He’s laying out his theory as to why he thinks the next ice age is just around the corner, and it’s cyclical, and it will be abrupt.

I’m Laura Lee.


Conversation for Exploration with LAURA LEE
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